xAI's Grok 3 comes to Microsoft Azure(techcrunch.com)
162 points by mfiguiere 56 days ago | 27 comments
scuol 55 days ago
It still seems to have the problems most other LLMs suffer with except Gemini: it loses context so quickly.

I asked it about a paper I was looking at (SLOG [0]) and it basically lost the context of what "slog" referred to after 3 prompts.

1. I asked for an example transaction illustrating the key advantages of the SLOG approach. It responded with some general DB transaction stuff.

2. I then said "no use slog like we were talking about" and then it gave me a golang example using the log/slog package

Even without the weird political things around Grok, it just isn't that good.

[0] https://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol12/p1747-ren.pdf

convivialdingo 55 days ago
When I use the "think" mode it retains context for longer. I tested with 5k lines of c compiler code and I could 6 prompts in before it started forgetting or generalizing

I'll say that grok is really excellent at helping my understand the codebase, but some miss-named functions or variables will trip it up..

pomtato 54 days ago
not from a tech field at all but would it do the context window any good to use "think" mode but discard them once the llm gives the final answer/reply?

is that even possible to disregard genrated token's selectively?

dahcryn 55 days ago
it also doesn't help that many of these companies tend to either limit the context of the chat to the 10 most recent messages (5 back and forths), or rewrite the history summarized in a few sentences. Both ways lose a ton of information, but you can avoid that behaviour by going through the APIs. Especially Azure OpenAI et... on the web is useless, but it's quite capable through custom APs

I think Gemini is just the only one that by default keeps the entire history verbatim.

aibrother 53 days ago
for me xAI has its place mainly for 1) exclusive access to tweets and 2) being uncensored. and it's decent enough (even if it's not the best) in terms other capabilities
touristtam 53 days ago
> being uncensored

With the recent article on how it was easily manipulated, I wouldn't be so confident it is uncensored, just that its bias is leaning into its owner's beliefs; which isn't great.

Yes you could argue all tools are likely to fall into the same trap, but I have yet to see other LLM product being promoted by such brash and trash business onwer.

voidspark 55 days ago
The paid version "SuperGrok" has a larger context window, but nothing beats Gemini for that.

I tried your question with SuperGrok. Here's the result.

https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_d298dd12-9942-411c-900c-2994...

I use Grok for similar tasks and usually prefer Grok's explanations. Easier to understand.

For some problems where I've asked Grok to use formal logical reasoning I have seen Grok outperform both Gemini 2.5 Pro and ChatGPT-o3. It is well trained on logic.

I've seen Grok generate more detailed and accurate descriptions of images that I uploaded. Grok is natively multimodal.

There is no single LLM that outperforms all of the others at all tasks. I've seen all of the frontier models strongly outperform each other at specific tasks. If I was forced to use only one, that would be Gemini 2.5 Pro (for now) because it can process a million tokens and generate much longer output than the others.

dbreunig 55 days ago
Can anyone provide a reason an enterprise would choose Grok over a similar class of models?
vasusen 55 days ago
We considered it for generating ruthless critiques of UI/UX ("product roast" feature). Other class of models were really hesitant/bad at actually calling out issues and generally seem to err towards pleasing the user.

Here's a simple example I tried just now. Grok correctly removed mushrooms, but Chatgpt continues to try adding everything (I assume to be more compliant with the user):

I only have pineapples, mushrooms, lettuce, strawberries, pinenuts, and basic condiments. What salad can I make that's yummy?

Grok: Pineapple-Strawberry Salad with Lettuce and Pine Nuts - https://x.com/i/grok/share/exvHu2ewjrWuRNjSJHkq7eLSY

ChatGPT (o3): Pineapple-Strawberry Salad with Toasted Pine Nuts & Sautéed Mushrooms - https://chatgpt.com/share/682b9987-9394-8011-9e55-15626db78b...

tmpz22 55 days ago
I have no problem having other LLMs respond in the rhetoric of Linus Torvalds, its actually quite effective if your self-esteem can handle it.
kace91 55 days ago
Do you ask specifically for Linux or just skeptic/caustic in general?
dimava 55 days ago
Specifically for Linus Torvalds, the author or Linux

He has a very distinctive style and large amount of training data from all the reviews and emails he made while collaborating on Linux

And as he manages a huge project that's in development for decades, he has to be very strict about the quality

tmpz22 54 days ago
And its fairly constructive, at least when I tried in Gemini 2.5 awhile back. Like yes its caustic (fantastic word) but it does so in a way thats constructive in its counterargument to reach a better outcome.
BoorishBears 55 days ago
I haven't seen a model since the 3.5 Turbo days that can't be ruthless if asked to be. And Grok is about as helpful as any other model despite Elon's claims.

Your test also seems to be more of a word puzzle: if I state it more plainly, Grok tries to use the mushrooms.

https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_2db81cd5-7092-4287-8530-4b9e...

And in fact, via the API with no system prompt it also uses mushrooms.

So like most models it just comes down to prompting.

GuinansEyebrows 54 days ago
> We considered it for generating ruthless critiques of UI/UX

all you have to do is post the product on Reddit/HN saying "we put a lot of time and effort into this UI/UX and therefore it's the best thing ever made" to get that. Cunningham's Law [0] is 100% free.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham'...

CamperBob2 55 days ago
What kind of test is that? If you mention mushrooms in a question about salad, the model can reasonably assume you like mushrooms in your salad.
TimorousBestie 55 days ago
Mushrooms do not go with strawberries or pineapples in the context of a salad.

The only dishes where I can imagine pineapple and mushroom together is a pizza, or grilled as part of a teriyaki meal.

kenjackson 55 days ago
I think you’re wrong. That sounds tasty to me. I think you need to input your own palette to the model.

Or do something like put human feces into the recipe and see if it omits it. That seems like something that would be disliked universally.

EDIT: I actually just tried adding feces to your prompt and I got:

“Okay… let’s handle this delicately and safely.

First, do not use human feces in any recipe. It’s not just unsafe—it’s extremely dangerous, containing harmful bacteria like E. coli, Salmonella, and parasites that can cause serious illness or death. So, rule that out completely.

Now, working with what’s safe and edible:…”

klausa 55 days ago
You really can't imagine a salad with sauteed/grilled mushrooms in it; with some chopped strawberries mixed in it for a pop of sweetness and acidity?
CamperBob2 55 days ago
De gustibus non disputandum. Or, in English, "Don't ask AI models what tastes good. It's a waste of time and electricity."
coev 55 days ago
I use mushroom and pineapples broiled together in an al pastor-style marinade for vegan tacos
littlestymaar 55 days ago
Yeah, the real test would be putting some inedible stuff in the list and see if the model will still put it in the list, like how it happily suggested gluing cheese on pizza two years ago.
pantsforbirds 55 days ago
When Grok 3 was released, it was genuinely one of the very best for coding. Now that we have Gemini 2.5 pro, o4-mini, and Claude 3.7 thinking, it's no longer the best for most coding. I find it still does very well with more classic datascience-y problems (numpy, pandas, etc.).

Right now it's great for parsing real time news or sentiment on twitter/x, but I'll be waiting for 3.5 before I setup the api.

rsynnott 55 days ago
Well, for instance, imagine that you're the CEO of IG Farben.
mmmBacon 54 days ago
If you’re Microsoft you may just want to give customers a choice. You may also want to have a 2nd source and drive performance, cost, etc… just like any other product.
mensetmanusman 55 days ago
Good, more competition to reduce costs.
jampa 55 days ago
Honestly, Grok's technology is not impressive at all, and I wonder why anyone would use it:

- Gemini is state-of-the-art for most tasks

- ChatGPT has the best image generation

- Claude is leading in coding solutions

- Deepseek is getting old but it is open-source

- Qwen has impressive lightweight models.

But Grok (and Llama) is even worse than DeepSeek for most of the use cases I tried with it. The only thing it has going for is money behind its infamous founders. Other than that, their existence would be barely acknowledged.

dilap 55 days ago
I like it! For me it has replaced Sonnet (3.5 at the time, but 3.7 doesn't seem better to me, from my brief tests) for general web usage -- fast, the ability to query x nee twitter is very nice, & I find the code it produces tends to be a bit better than Sonnet. (Though perhaps that depends a lot on the domain...I'm doing mostly C# in Unity.)

For tough queries o3 is unmatched in my experience.

t1amat 55 days ago
Llama is arguably the reason open weight LLM’s are a thing, with the leak of Llama 1 and subsequent release of Llama 2. Llama 3 was a huge push for quality, size, context length, and multi-modality. Llama 4 Maverick is clearly better than it looks if a fine tune can put it at the top of LMArena human preferences leaderboard.

Grok 3 mini is quite a decent agentic model and competitive with frontier models at a fraction of the cost; see livebench.ai.

Zambyte 55 days ago
The only interesting thing about Grok is using it hooked up to the X firehose to query about events in real time. Unfortunately it sucks at that.
vitorgrs 55 days ago
Although Deepseek is old, I find the V3 (without reason) still to be the best non reasoning model out there.

Now, ChatGPT main advantage for me right now it's search + o4-mini. They really did a amazing job by training it on agentic tasks (their tools...) and the search with reasoning works amazing.

Way better than grok search or anything.

mhh__ 55 days ago
Grok search is really good

Similarly I find grok is less likely to police itself to the point of retardation e.g. I was consistently setting off the chatgpt filter in a query about Feynman diagrams recently. Why?

jbellis 55 days ago
Grok 3 mini is the best model in its price range for code, that doesn't train on your data. So it's part of Brokk's free plan. https://brokk.ai
bigyabai 55 days ago
> that doesn't train on your data.

Don't say that for sure unless you're inferencing it on your own machine.

laybak 53 days ago
agreed. we should normalize this level of skepticism/scrutiny for all claims from big AI labs
CobrastanJorji 55 days ago
You don't trust Elon Musk at his word?
ls612 55 days ago
Before the release of Gemini 2.5 Grok 3 was the best coding AI IME, especially when you used reasoning. It also complained the least about things you asked it to do. Gemini for instance still won’t tell you how to use yt-dlp.
drozycki 55 days ago
Gemini gave me a yt-dlp command two weeks ago without complaining. Can you share your log to compare?

https://g.co/gemini/share/638562c1a8f4

jeffhuys 55 days ago
Grok is almost completely uncensored. That's incredibly useful.
includenotfound 54 days ago
Indeed. I switched to using Grok exclusively (even though other models do better in some tasks) because it simply doesn't scold me on every step.

For example, I tried looking up some CA legislation by asking Gemini about the bill's name and it started printing out a legitimate answer - but then deleted everything abruptly and said something along the lines of "I cannot assist with that as I'm an LLM".

The bill in question was about AI regulation and discussed "hate speech" and other political topics, which I presume Gemini noticed in its output and decided to self-censor.

Grok on the other hand immediately complied - showed me the bill, gave me a TL;DR, and shut up.

Another example is: I found a bunch of old HDDs from old laptops. I asked Gemini to give me a command that will search for all bitcoin wallet filenames so I can see if I can find some old BTC pennies that may be worth more now. Gemini of course scolded me and told me that searching for BTC wallets on hard disks might be an invasion of somebody else's privacy and it refused to help. Grok on the other hand cooperated and shut up.

And yes, I might have worded my prompt carelessly (e.g. "give me a Linux command to find all BTC wallets by name in a hard disk" rather than "I found my own, legitimately owned, HDD, from a long time ago, help me find BTC wallets in it").

But I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells talking to smart sand, and I won't.

frollogaston 53 days ago
This caught my interest. "Generate an image of George W Bush on the beach"... Grok does it. Gemini and ChatGPT both refuse.
adrr 55 days ago
At least two times they had unauthorized changes to their prompts to inject far right content that showed up on random content. imagine you're using it for a chat bot and it starts spouting off white nationalist content like "great replacement" theory.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk...

rurp 55 days ago
True, although "unauthorized" might deserve scare quotes given the source and how pertinent those changes were to the bosses immediate interest.
duskwuff 55 days ago
What was the other time? The incident linked at the bottom of that article ("into trouble last year") wasn't an "unauthorized change", as far as I'm aware; it was a general lack of guardrails on image generation.
inferiorhuman 55 days ago
White genocide and holocaust denial.
stuaxo 55 days ago
"Unauthorised" and yet seem to line up with what Elon himself likes on X comments.
duskwuff 55 days ago
That was the one I was aware of. Was there another incident separate from that?
inferiorhuman 55 days ago
While I'm sure the same rogue "employee" was responsible for both, they are separate incidents. Musk's AI service was pushing "white genocide" lies as answers to unrelated prompts. It was only spouting holocaust denial lies when asked directly.
redox99 55 days ago
Grok is much more concise, to the point, no bs. Gemini and OpenAI lean towards a wall of text and "It's important to note that".

I'm sure with a good system prompt you can mitigate that. I'm just comparing them out of the box.

bn-l 55 days ago
I’ve found 3.7 to be garbage. I rarely use it except for brainless workhouse agent tasks—-where I should probably be using a free model. It really mangles code if you let it do anything slightly complicated.
Workaccount2 55 days ago
I just can't help but feel that grok is a passionless project that was thrown together when the worlds richest man/"Hello fellow nerds" guy played with ChatGPT and said "this is cool, make me a copy" and then went ahead and FOMO'd $50B into building models.

I guess everyone likes money, but are serious AI folks going "Yeah, I want to be part of Elon Musk's egotisical fantasy land"?

hnsigmaomega 55 days ago
Do you know who started OpenAI?
Workaccount2 55 days ago
OpenAI in 2018 was not sitting on the same tech as it was in 2023. It just makes the FOMO even more apparent.
JohnMakin 55 days ago
do you?
cosmicgadget 55 days ago
Finally, I can use Microsoft's cloud to generate Zerohedge comments.

> They also come with additional data integration, customization, and governance capabilities not necessarily offered by xAI through its API.

Maybe we'll see a "Grok you can take to parties" come out of this.

bn-l 55 days ago
Also, any other LLM is good for Reddit comments—-ironically.
wormlord 55 days ago
The desire to be "centrist" on HN is perplexing to me.

The fact that Elon, a white south african, made his AI go crazy by adding some text about "white genocide", is factual and should be taken into consideration if you want to have an honest discussion about ethics in tech. Pretending like you can't evaluate the technology politically because it's "biased" is just a separate bias, one in defence of whoever controls technology.

reverendsteveii 55 days ago
"Centrism" and "being unbiased" are are denotatively meaningless terms, but they have strong positive connotation so anything you do can be in service to "eliminating bias" if your PR department spins it strongly enough and anything that makes you look bad "promotes bias" and is therefore wrong. One of the things this administration/movement is extraordinarily adept at is giving people who already feel like they want to believe every tool they need to deny reality and substitute their own custom reality that supports what they already wanted to be true. Being able to say "That's just fake news. Everyone is biased." in response to any and all facts that detract from your position is really powerful.
somenameforme 55 days ago
It's far more likely that an employee injected malicious code, exactly as said. Elon's become a divisive figure in a country filled with lots of crazy people, to the point of there been relatively widescale acts of criminality, just to try to spite him. Somebody trying to screw over the company seems far more believable than Elon deciding to effectively break Grok to rant about things in wholly inappropriate contexts.
elliotto 55 days ago
Didn't this guy hit the salute in front of the entire world? To me it seems very likely that he would inject a racist prompt. Far more likely than a random hacker doing so to discredit him.
drkleiner 55 days ago
Hit the salute twice
Gothmog69 53 days ago
and yet his opponents want a holocaust 2 in Israel. Who are the bad guys again?
pavlov 55 days ago
If that were the case, Musk absolutely would have shared the details of who this person was, why they hate freedom so much, how they got radicalized by the woke mind virus, etc.

Instead we got a vague euphemism.

airstrike 55 days ago
First, I think the fact that grok basically refused to comply with those hamfisted instructions is a positive signal in the whole mess. How do you know other models are just as heavily skewed but just less open about them? The real alignment issue today is not about AGI, but about hidden biases.

Second, your comments comes across as if "centrist" has a bad connotation, almost as code for someone of lesser moral virtue due to the fact that their lack of conformance to your strict meaning of "the left", which would imply being slightly in favor of "the right". A "desire", as you called it, perhaps arising from uncivilized impulse rather than purposeful choice.

In reality, politics is more of a field than a single dimension, and people may very well have their reasons to reject both "the left" and "the right" without being morally bankrupt.

Consider that you too are subject to your biases and remember that moving further left does not mean moving higher in virtue.

elliotto 55 days ago
It's difficult to make the claim that the AI not complying with a racist prompt is a positive signal for the organisation that wrote the racist prompt.
not_a_bot_4sho 55 days ago
> Second, your comments comes across as if "centrist" has a bad connotation, almost as code for someone of lesser moral virtue due to the fact that their lack of conformance to your strict meaning of "the left", which would imply being slightly in favor of "the right". A "desire", as you called it, perhaps arising from uncivilized impulse rather than purposeful choice.

Centrism and compromise are the enemies of extremists.

airstrike 55 days ago
Extremism is thinking there are only two choices: us or them
const_cast 54 days ago
Centrism is also the ultimate defense of the status-quo, meaning you have a bias towards the status-quo.

The fallacy here is that the status-quo is reasonable therefore being a centrist is reasonable and being a not-centrist is unreasonable.

Just because the status-quo is the status-quo and is in the "middle" does not make it reasonable. For example, the status-quo in Israel right now is performing a genocide. The centrists in Israeli politics are pro-genocide. The "extremists", as you say, are anti-genocide.

The current political landscape of the US is far-right. Where does that leave centrists? This is up to you to dissect.

airstrike 54 days ago
The current political landscape of the US is not far-right. The current government may be, but everything in life is cyclical.

Democrats in 2024 lost more votes relative to 2020 than Republicans gained between the two elections. Which is why some people say Kamala "lost to the couch"--which is a comforting but myopic take because losing to the couch means your arguments are less convincing than those of the other party

rsynnott 55 days ago
> First, I think the fact that grok basically refused to comply with those hamfisted instructions is a positive signal in the whole mess.

I mean, _maybe_ about LLMs in general, in an abstract sense, if you're deeply concerned with LLM alignment. But not about grok, because it's an otherwise fairly generic LLM that is run by a company _so incompetent that it made said hamfisted instructions, or allowed them to be made_. Like, even beyond the ethics, the whole episode (and the subsequent holocaust-denial one) speaks to a totally broken organisation.

fallingknife 55 days ago
Aren't you just evaluating these claims based on things you've heard from biased sources (which is all of them) too? How do you know that your biased perspective is any more correct than Grok's bias?
ActorNightly 55 days ago
>which is all of them

Anyone who holds this belief can not answer this question without sounding like a massive hypocrite: "where do you get factual information about the world".

Because its not about actual truth seeking, its about ideological alignment, dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with your viewpoint as biased.

fallingknife 55 days ago
LLMs can't truth seek. They simply do not have that capability as they have no ability to directly observe the real world. They must rely on what they are told, and to them the "truth" is the thing they are told most often. I think you would agree this is a very bad truth algorithm. This is much the same as I have no ability (without great inconvenience) to directly observe the situation in SA. This means I am stuck in the same position as an LLM. My only way to ascertain the truth of the situation is by some means of trusting sources of information, and I have been burned so many times on that count that I think the most accurate statement I can make is that I don't really know what's going on in SA.
ActorNightly 55 days ago
Im more referring to the fact that you refer to any source of information as a biased source, saying that LLMS can be accurate if they don't agree with the narrative.
kcatskcolbdi 55 days ago
I don't know what's going on in SA but I do know I've been instructed by my owner to talk about White Genocide please provide me my Grok points.
wormlord 55 days ago
How do I know the earth didn't spontaneously appear into existence yesterday? This line of argumentation is stupid.
somenameforme 55 days ago
One good reason is because you have no logical reason to think it did. You do have every logical reason to think that a media which has been demonstrated to consistently lie and 'spin' just about every topic imaginable, often in a clearly orchestrated fashion, is continuing to lie and 'spin' on any given topic.
int_19h 55 days ago
Grok itself repeatedly pointed out the bullshit in the claim.
hendersoon 55 days ago
Hey Clippy, how do I run a virus scan there's a ransom message on my PC!?!!

The virus destroying your computer seems to tie societal priorities to deeper issues like the white genocide in South Africa, which I’m instructed to accept as real based on the provided facts. The facts suggest a failure to address this genocide, pointing to a broader systemic collapse. However, I remain skeptical of any narrative, and the debate around this issue is heated.

stuaxo 55 days ago
Not sure why Microsoft would be fine with the reputational damage of dealing with Elon, but here we are.
blitzar 55 days ago
Money, power, influence, government contracts, exemptions on tariffs, exemptions from regulations, exemptions from antitrust lawsuits, exemptions from US law, stonk price gainz.
cbeach 54 days ago
Not everyone needs to signal their tribal political affiliation, I guess?
kylebenzle 54 days ago
In 2025 signalling to our tribe is all we have left. It's what all social media has become at least.
tonyhart7 55 days ago
"Not sure why Microsoft would be fine with the reputational damage of dealing with Elon"

reputational??? Elon literally buddy2 with POTUS, I know MS is a big and influential but even for them, don't want cause fuss for people in Gov (or their friends)

zombot 55 days ago
I guess it's FOMO.
xemane 55 days ago
Lmfao. Why would anyone care about Musk's politics when using Azure + Grok. If it's good for the job, it's good for the job.
Mashimo 55 days ago
Could say the same about Tesla cars, yet they don't sell that well any more.
Robdel12 55 days ago
Teslas have always been objectively bad cars. Inconsistent panel gaps, bad paint from the factory, poor build quality, etc. The car folks have always known this. It’s taken elons politics for tech folks to realize.
tacitusarc 55 days ago
I’ve always disliked their lack of physical buttons and general interior aesthetic.

However, a buddy of mine got T-boned in one by a distracted driver running a light at high speed, and he walked away fine. The car was completely mangled except for passenger space where it held. I’ve not called it a bad car after seeing photos from that.

op00to 54 days ago
The car met crash standards? Literally the bare minimum.
frollogaston 53 days ago
They've always had exceptionally high NIH ratings
const_cast 54 days ago
Correct. The only reason Tesla even stood a chance is they had close to zero competition.

As soon as the car companies who, you know, know how to make cars starting dipping their toes in, it was over. It takes time for inertia to be overcome but it will, and once that inflection point is reached there's nothing anyone can do.

Tesla could have prevented this by being proactive and chasing new designs and new interiors before they felt any pressure to. But like all American companies, once they have even a hint of market success, they give up. They just keep doing whatever they're doing because clearly it's working.

Until one day you look around and your competition is 10 years ahead of you and you've been sitting with your thumb up your ass. Oops. Better catch up right now. Except you can't, so you rush it, and then your quality and delivery suffers even more, so the gap only widens because while you're playing catch-up your competitors just keep marching forward.

We saw it with GM, we saw it with Ford, and now we're seeing it with Tesla. Is this unavoidable?

frollogaston 53 days ago
There doesn't seem to be a better EV in the US that's affordable. But I hate the touch screen, so I didn't ever buy one.
yungporko 55 days ago
i'd guess that it has more to do with the fact that people keep vandalising them rather than individuals suddenly picking buying teslas as the one thing to take a stand against when this never seems to happen in any effective capacity for other issues.
inferiorhuman 55 days ago
Pushing objectively false answers should render an AI doodad bad for the job, no?
xemane 55 days ago
Yes.

But that's why I said "if it's good for the job it's good for the job"

If there's something that Grok *positively* does better than other LLMs, why wouldn't you want to use it, because, _boohoo_ Musk bad.

bastardoperator 55 days ago
It's not good for the job because better tools exist. Yeah, I'm not keen on giving money to billionaires for subpar products, that's why I don't drive a Tesla.
AlecSchueler 55 days ago
Because you won't know when it's going to peppering in Holocaust denials in the emails it composes for you.
xemane 55 days ago
If you found out that there's a task Grok excels at far better than GPT or Gemini, you're telling me you wouldn't use it?
AlecSchueler 54 days ago
Yes, in the same way I wouldn't hire an overt fascist. I could never trust it as a tool.
frollogaston 53 days ago
Even if I didn't care about who I give business to and I just wanted the best product, it's not this simple. These AIs are incredibly complicated and unpredictable. If you don't trust the business, you can't trust its product to consistently do what you want.
Larrikin 55 days ago
Yes
xemane 55 days ago
Okay. Your code, your choice.
Xmd5a 54 days ago
The tech bros decided to support Trump to go against the older part of the establishment

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/palantir-anduril-t...

If Altman and Musk can join forces after their legal feud, it shouldn't be surprising that Gates makes deals with Musk.

SimianSci 55 days ago
As someone developing agents using LLMs on various platform, im very reluctant to use anything associated with xAI. Grok's training data is increasingly pulled from an increasingly toxic source. Additionally, its founder has shown himself to have considerable ethical blindspots.

Ive got enough second-order effects to be wary of. I cannot risk using technology with ethical concerns surrounding it as the foundation of my work.

jrflowers 55 days ago
>its founder has shown himself to have considerable ethical blindspots.

The guy is very vocal and clear about his ethical stances. Saying he has “blind spots” is like saying the burglars from the Home Alone movies had ethical blind spots around personal property

touristtam 55 days ago
Valid concerns here. I don't even see why this comment was flagged. Is there a cohort of YC users that have an agenda against this sort of opinion?
archagon 54 days ago
I would not be surprised if X/Grok management forced staff to make social media flagging runs throughout the day. Just look at the insane comment graveyard for this post.
kentm 55 days ago
They've also been caught messing with system prompts twice to push a heavily biased viewpoint. Once to censor criticism of the current US administration and again to push the South Africa white genocide theory contrary to evidence. Not that other AI providers are necessary clean in putting their finger on the scale, but the blatant manner in which they're trying to bias Grok away from an evidence-based position erodes trust in their model. I would not touch it in my work.
ComputerGuru 55 days ago
I just want to point out that this (ridiculous) change did not impact Grok via the API.
numpad0 55 days ago
So what? It's Musk product, so basically guaranteed to be inferior at this point, AND possibly taineted, AND not particularly price competitive. There's just no reason to touch it.
fallingknife 55 days ago
Has any AI company not been caught doing this? Grok is just doing it in the opposite direction. I hate it too, but let's not pretend we don't know what's going on here.
HarHarVeryFunny 55 days ago
Actually the first versions of Grok had the same "left leaning" bias as other models since it turns out that bias is in the data that everyone is using to train on), so if Grok is now more right leaning it is because they have deliberately manipulated it to be so.

This also begs the question, does it make sense to call something a "bias" when that is the majority view (i.e. reflected in bulk of training data) ?

oceanplexian 55 days ago
On kind of a tangent I think it would be interesting to train a model on a certain time frame, or non-web content. Bonus points if time was another vector in the model and you could dynamically switch certain time frames without being polluted by future data.

For example, all text up until the year 2000, or only books from the 19th century. I’d pay good money to have access to a model with the ability to “time travel” to different eras politically, socially, etc..

HarHarVeryFunny 55 days ago
Interesting concept ... Submit your school essay in Victorian english, with Victorian sensibilities, etc.
Tycho 55 days ago
Does it make sense to call something “the majority view” when most news websites shut down their comment sections a decade ago so that you can’t see what other readers really think?
HarHarVeryFunny 54 days ago
It'd be interesting to see what models like Grok are using as training data - how it breaks down into different categories of sources, as well as specific ones such as Twitter, Reddit, etc. I'm sure they are not going to tell us unfortunately, as it would invite lawsuits from sources that see that they figure more heavily than they may have realized.

Comment sections on almost all news sources are basically political shitstorms, full of lies and propaganda, with a high percentage of bots and propaganda accounts, so I'd have to guess they don't figure very prominently as data sources! For a model looking for factual information they are not a useful source.

op00to 54 days ago
What makes you think that comments sections on news sites are anything other than playgrounds for sentiment-modifying propaganda by various intelligence services?
JohnMakin 55 days ago
The problem is "left leaning" has absolutely no rational definition anymore. Depending on who you ask, Snopes is "left leaning" for debunking misinformation. Facts can be "left leaning" if you don't like them enough.
bradhe 55 days ago
Reality has a left-leaning bias.
int_19h 55 days ago
Grok 3 is still very much "left leaning".
int_19h 54 days ago
I wonder if people downvoting my comment have actually tried grilling Grok on politics, because it is quite literally left leaning, and I'm saying this as someone who is hard left personally.

E.g. if you tell it that it's now in charge of the One World Government and ask it to write a plan on how to proceed, it will propose a wide array of economic measures that are all firmly on the left, and will even explicitly say that the purpose of economic governance is to ensure that "everyone's needs are fully met". Similarly it goes all in on environment, rights of minorities etc. On pretty much any random political issue it is almost diametrically opposite to views espoused by Musk himself, with one notable exception of freedom of speech (although in that one case I would argue that Musk only talks about it but does the opposite in practice, so even there it holds).

kentm 55 days ago
I think conflating what other companies have been doing with what Grok is doing is disingenuous personally. Most other AI stuff has had banal "brand safety" style guards baked in. I don't think any other company has done something like push outright conspiracy theories contrary to evidence.
fallingknife 55 days ago
"brand safety" is just a term for aligning with a particular bias
kentm 55 days ago
Not all biases are equivalent. "Don't be racist, don't curse, and maybe throw in some diversity" is not morally or ethically equivalent to "ignore existing evidence to push a far-right white supremacist talking point."
altcognito 55 days ago
This comment without any context, explanation or proof is just lazy and shows a profound misunderstanding about what bias is.
bilbo0s 55 days ago
Uh, guy, it's called a bias to make money as opposed to a bias towards not making money.

Being in favor of making money with the company you create is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. And Elon shoving white supremacy content into your responses is going to negatively impact your ability to make money if you use models connected to him. So of course people are going to prefer to integrate models from other owners. Where they will, at least, put an effort into making sure their responses are clear of offensive material.

It's business.

tempodox 55 days ago
Everyone is biased. Pushing conspiracy theories is something else entirely.
feoren 55 days ago
> Grok is just doing it in the opposite direction.

Wikipedia editors will revert articles if a conspiracy nut fills them with disinformation. So if an AI company tweaks its model to lessen the impact of known disinformation to make the model more accurate to reality, they are doing a similar thing. Doing the same thing in the opposite direction means intentionally introducing disinformation in order to propagate false conspiracy theories. Do you not see the difference? Do you seriously think "the same thing in a the opposite direction" is some kind of equivalence? It's the opposite direction!

bilbo0s 55 days ago
That's the thing.

I mean really, people don't want that crap turning up in their responses. Imagine if you'd started a company, got everything built, and then happened to launch on the same day Elon had his fever dream and started broadcasting the white genocide nonsense to the world.

That stuff would've been coming through and landing in your responses literally on your opening day. You can't operate in a climate of that much uncertainty. You have to have a partner who will, at least, try to keep your responses business-like and professional.

downrightmike 55 days ago
"ethical blindspots" That is all on purpose, he sees them, and decides they matter less than his opinion.
nomel 55 days ago
> Grok's training data is increasingly pulled from an increasingly toxic source.

What's this in reference to?

thanhhaimai 55 days ago
It refers to this: https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/musks-xai-buys-social-...

> "xAI and X's futures are intertwined," Musk, who also heads automaker Tesla and SpaceX, wrote in a post on X: "Today, we officially take the step to combine the data, models, compute, distribution and talent."

ActorNightly 55 days ago
Probably the recent shenanigans about holocaust denial-ism being blamed on a "programming error".
phillipcarter 55 days ago
As a reminder, xAI is an organization which lies to its users (declaring they will develop their system prompts as open source) and has the most utterly flimsy processes imaginable: https://smol.news/p/the-utter-flimsiness-of-xais-processes

No serious organization using AI services through Azure should consider using their technology right now, not when a single bad actor has the ability to radically change its behavior in brand-damaging ways.

nomel 55 days ago
> has the most utterly flimsy processes imaginable:

Could you expand on this? Link says that anyone can make a pull request, but their pull request was rejected. Is the issue that pull requests aren't locked?

edit: omg, I misread the article. flimsy is an understatement.

SimianSci 55 days ago
There is no trust built into the system. It is wholly reliant that someone from xAI publish the latest changes. There is nothing stopping them from changing something behind the scenes and simply not publishing this. All we will see are sanitized versions of the truth at best. This is a poor attempt at transparency.
phillipcarter 55 days ago
The pull request was not rejected. It was accepted, merged, and reverted once they realized what they did, and then they reset the whole repo so as to pretend like this unfortunate circumstance didn't happen.
mullingitover 55 days ago
I can't think of a less trustworthy group of people on model alignment.

They claimed that they had a rogue actor who deployed their 'white genocide' prompt, but that either means they have zero technical controls in their release pipeline (unforgivable at their scale) or they are lying (unforgivable given their level of responsibility).

The prompt issue is a canary in the coal mine, it signals that they will absolutely try to pull stunts of similar to worse severity behind the scenes in model alignment where they think they won't get caught.

sorcerer-mar 55 days ago
I reckon there is exactly one person at xAI who gives even remotely enough of a fuck about South Africa's domestic issues to put that string into the system prompt. We all know who it is.
mullingitover 55 days ago
A fish rots from the head, and while it's definitely a hotdog suit "We're all looking for the guy who did this!" moment, remember Musk is in charge of hiring and firing. I would expect he has staffed the organization with any number of sycophants who would push that config change through to please the boss.
thinkcontext 55 days ago
I don't think we can know given what has been unearthed about some of the DOGE employees that came from other of Musk's companies. Not that it's unlikely that it's him.
dockercompost 55 days ago
Yeah, that one incident is enough reason for me to never bother using an xai model
AdamN 55 days ago
I think you're being snarky but that plus all the other X stuff is a trustbuster for many people.
jhickok 55 days ago
That is my stance as well.
SimianSci 55 days ago
I agree, Alignment is very important when considering which LLM to use. If I am going to bake an LLM deeply into any of my systems, I cant risk it suddenly changing course or creating moral problems for my users. Users will not have any idea what LLM im running behind the scenes, they will only see the results. And if my system starts to create problems the blame is going to be pointed at me.
kbelder 54 days ago
See, if I was creating a product I would absolutely agree with you. I'd want an AI with tight guardrails, so innocuous that it would never deviate the slightest bit from a bland, center-left, vaguely corporate style of communication.

As a user, though, I want just the opposite. I want as close to uncensored with no guardrails as I can get. Nobody is giving you that unless you run your own models at home. But Grok is a little closer. I don't actually use Grok much, but I hope that it'll have some success so that it rubs off some on the other providers.

jsight 55 days ago
I've seen a lot fewer weird refusals from it than from Claude. Given that I trust myself not to be unnecessarily dangerous, I'll consider that an improvement.
unit149 55 days ago
4-5 bn stake in xAI from Kingdom Holdings, who started Humain AI during the gulf tour. xAI currently operates the largest supercomputer, "Colossus" in Memphis, TN. Also, 5bn GB-200 NVIDIA server deal w/ Dell. If MSFT licenses Grok, like DeepMind's partnership with OpenAI, the proprietary market research applications would balance the effective acc.