jari_mustonen11 hours ago
Here is the summary of key improvements made:

1. Structure & Flow

    - Decision Trees: Clear branching logic with ├── and └── notation

    - Sequential Steps: Numbered, ordered procedures instead of scattered explanations

    - Prerequisites: Explicit dependency checks before proceeding
2. AI Agent Optimizations

    - Tool Call Clarity: Exact function names and parameters

    - Binary Decisions: Clear yes/no conditions instead of ambiguous language

    - Error Handling: Specific failure conditions and next steps

    - Verification Steps: "Recheck" instructions after each fix
3. Cognitive Load Reduction

    - Reference Tables: Quick lookup for tools and purposes

    - Pattern Recognition: Common issue combinations and their solutions

    - Critical Reminders: Common AI mistakes section to prevent errors
4. Actionable Language

    - Removed verbose explanations mixed with instructions

    - Consolidated multiple documents' logic into single workflows 

    - Used imperative commands: "Check X", "If Y then Z"

    - Added immediate verification steps
brendoelfrendo10 hours ago
Wait, are we about to reinvent programming from first principles?
ranie9310 hours ago
Seemingly its always been on a scale between directly editing 1s and 0s and drafting legislature. Compile times may vary
whateveracct9 hours ago
I'd say it's more "programming with extra steps"
measurablefunc8 hours ago
This is more like reinvention by trying everything which doesn't work first. It's the dual of first principles.
inerte8 hours ago
Maybe one day we will all be using https://shakespearelang.com/
pjot6 hours ago
I’ve found myself writing code intending to write prompts for writing better code.

Soon enough Im sure we’ll start to see programming languages that are geared towards interacting with llms

LeoPanthera5 hours ago
Finally a use for Lojban!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban

ivape9 hours ago
In other words, just like programming, we’re writing better instructions. In this case, we’re asking it to think out loud more clearly. It’s almost like whiteboard interview prep.

It’s quite amazing because it means programming is fully entering the natural language phase of the timeline.

If you aren’t a solid clear writer, you may not make it in the brave new world.

mhuffman8 hours ago
>If you aren’t a solid clear writer, you may not make it in the brave new world.

Have you not heard of all the AI startups that can turn a 3-word thought into very clearly written prose to be lovingly poured into the waiting mouth of your AI agent?

johnrob8 hours ago
Isn’t programming the clearest form of writing? Perhaps it’s the non programmers that need to “catch up”.
mejutoco8 hours ago
We are still in the pigsty compared to math
Yoric7 hours ago
I'd have to disagree. We're much less ambiguous than math.

In fact, according to theory, we're writing executable proofs.

idiotsecant8 hours ago
The computers of the future will be operated by shamans making incantations more than technicians writing code.
Yoric7 hours ago
Of the future?

We already have people praying to the machine gods, so I guess your future is next week?

beefnugs4 hours ago
Great! A diviner has vibe-exposed the arcane magic word knowledge on the steps to ultimate knowledgeplasty! Come let us get together to share more trial-and-error wordsmithery, Together we will someday have ultimate power!

If the model creators themselves arent sharing this magic-word bullshitteryy then why is anyone spending time on this? It is just going to change with every model release

tedsanders7 hours ago
>GPT-5 showed significant improvement only in one benchmark domain - which is Telecom. The other ones have been somehow overlooked during model presentation - therefore we won’t bother about them either.

I work at OpenAI and you can partly blame me for our emphasis on Telecom. While we no doubt highlight the evals that make us look good, let me defend why the emphasis on Telecom isn't unprincipled cherry picking.

Telecom was made after Retail and Airline, and fixes some of their problems. In Retail and Airline, the model is graded against a ground truth reference solution. Grading against a reference solution makes grading easier, but has the downside that valid alternative solutions can receive scores of 0 by the automatic grading. This, along with some user model issues, is partly why Airline and Retail scores stopped climbing with the latest generations of models and are stuck around 60% / 80%. I'd bet you $100 that a superintelligence would probably plateau around here too, as getting 100% requires perfect guessing of which valid solution is written as the reference solution.

In Telecom, the authors (Barres et al.) made the grading less brittle by grading against outcome states, which may be achieved via multiple solutions, rather than by matching against a single specific solution. They also improved the user modeling and some other things too. So Telecom is the much better eval, with a much cleaner signal, which is partly why models can score as high as 97% instead of getting mired at 60%/80% due to brittle grading and other issues.

Even if I had never seen GPT-5's numbers, I like to think I would have said ahead of time that Telecom is much better than Airline/Retail for measuring tool use.

Incidentally, another thing to keep in mind when critically looking at OpenAI and others reporting their scores on these evals is that the evals give no partial credit - so sometimes you can have very good models that do all but one thing perfectly, which results in very poor scores. If you tried generalizing to tasks that don't trigger that quirk, you might get much better performance than the eval scores suggest (or vice versa, if your tasks trigger a quirk not present in the eval).

Here's the tau2-bench paper if anyone wants to read more: https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.07982

fallmonkey2 hours ago
Appreciated the response! I noticed the same when I ran tau2 myself on gpt-5 and 4.1, where gpt-5 is really good at looking at tool results and interleaving those with thinking, while 4.1/o3 struggles to decide the proper next tool to use even with thinking. To some extent, gpt-5 is too good at figuring out the right tool to use in one go. Amazing progress.
blndrt6 hours ago
Haha, I guess my little sarcasm just earned us a masterclass! Thanks a lot for sharing your insights — really appreciate it!
dlojudice11 hours ago
I wish they had published what prompt was given to Claude to improve GPT-5-mini's performance, as well as a before and after comparison of a prompt that underwent this transformation.
blndrt11 hours ago
Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it! It makes lot of sense - I'll update the article with links to the actual prompts. Initially I thought these would be too lengthy for the article and no one would care, but as it seems people are really interested in it. Of course I'd be happy to share the details.
quinncom3 hours ago
I see that you've added links to a pull request that show the previous and final optimized prompts. However, the OP was asking for the prompt you gave to Claude to assist you in optimizing your prompt. Would you mind sharing that one? (That way nobody has to reverse engineer the instructions from the diff you provided.)
seunosewa9 hours ago
I checked and also couldn't find the prompt.
blndrt8 hours ago
I published an update - you should be able to find that information at the end of the post.

Should be available now, although it might take a while for CDN to propagate.

alejoar8 hours ago
Thanks for sharing!
amelius11 hours ago
My take: we have no clue how this works and the performance can be down tomorrow just as well.
lubesGordi8 hours ago
My hypothesis: the length of the prompt shrunk, yet maintained the same amount of information.
wigglefruit1 hour ago
I feel like eventually we’ll get LLMs that will act like compilers do now. So they will take a prompt and turn it into an optimized prompt for a bigger LLM.
thanhhaimai8 hours ago
This is the PR with the changes in case people missed it:

https://github.com/mieciu/tau2-bench/pull/1/files

nitwit0052 hours ago
That seems so strongly directed, that it feels like an attempt to reproduce a classic chat bot.
blndrt6 hours ago
Thanks! I also updated the post with the link on the website.
caminanteblanco10 hours ago
The only problem is I feel like having to have Claude rewrite the prompt negates some of the efficiency and latency benefits of using mini. For system prompts obviously this doesn't matter, but for actual continuous user interaction, it feels unworkable.

It definitely makes sense that improving formatting and clarity for these smaller models would really help with performance, but I'm wondering if gpt5-mini is already smart enough to handle that reformatting, and can rewrite the prompt itself, before handing it off to another instance of itself.

Overall an awesome article!

csoham11 hours ago
Really intresting. What did the original prompt look like? Perhaps the original prompt was not that good? I feel like the changes claude suggested (except a couple maybe) are already pretty well known prompt engineering practices.
blndrt11 hours ago
Thank you for the feedback!

In this (telecom) benchmark you can review agent policies and manuals here: 1) https://github.com/sierra-research/tau2-bench/blob/main/data... 2) https://github.com/sierra-research/tau2-bench/blob/main/data...

Of course these are just parts of the prompt, you can inspect benchamark code to see how these are rendered to actual LLM calls.

In case someone is not familiar with framework methodology I've wrote a separate article covering that (with some of my thoughts) -> https://quesma.com/blog/tau2-from-llm-benchmark-to-blueprint...

sublimefire5 hours ago
My experience as well.

Prompt changes affect output substantially (just look up arxiv), the difficult part is find an optimal structure to yield the best results. It is a bit expensive to do a lot of testing on your own, so it all boils down to feels and experience at the moment. Then you mix up tool calls, other agent calls, client functions and this gets terribly hard to evaluate.

I am still puzzled how distance between policies can have an effect on the output. And how a simple retry fixes everything.

thesehands5 hours ago
This is very much what dspy aims to address. Learning the incantations necessary to prompt well can be replaced by an algorithmic loop and example labelled cases.
simianwords7 hours ago
Rewriting prompts don't come with no costs. The cost here is that different prompts work for different contexts and is not generalisable. The rewritten prompt here will not work well for other cases like medical or social advice.

I think this rewriting of prompts technique is the reason "reasoning" models perform well - they know exactly how to rewrite the prompts for a context.

FWIW I don't trust these benchmarks fully because a huge bump like this is not expected - I would expect OpenAI to optimise enough to let such gaps open.

CuriouslyC11 hours ago
This sort of stuff is trodden ground, if this seems exciting to you check out DSPy.
mccoyb10 hours ago
Many of the "look at what I did programming LLMs" blog posts on Hacker News have been developed and put out in academic papers and groups. The posts which gain traction here seem to be perennially behind the state of the art.
bigwheels10 hours ago
https://dspy.ai/tutorials/tool_use/

Definitely interesting, thank you!

BrunoDCDO12 hours ago
I wonder if it would be possible to improve even further on the benchmark by simply showing Claude the current hardest problems and asking it to improve the prompt without including any specifics related to the problems
tibbar10 hours ago
> Removed verbose explanations mixed with instructions

Is Claude rewriting generic instructions once, or is it rewriting the core task statement each time? If so, I'm not sure how you prevent information leakage: Claude might easily be "solving" some of the tasks and inserting subtle hints on the approach. I think this result is very interesting if it holds after rewriting only the generic instructions, even if the performance boost is lower.

dangoodmanUT7 hours ago
Doesn't saying "check -> action" suggest you're taking _away_ the agentic capabilities, and optimizing for the benchmark, meaning it's no longer a good benchmark for agentic capabilities?

That's like being able to see the test before taking it

roger_7 hours ago
Copilot in VSCode seems to do something similar in the form of todo lists.
moralestapia11 hours ago
No before/after prompt.

Into the trash it goes.

init_test1237 hours ago
Have you tried to use gpt-5 with high thinking to rewrite the prompt? why claude for this vs some other model?
grej11 hours ago
DSPy was ahead of its time and still underutilized.
behnamoh8 hours ago
Can you point me to any resources on DSPy that don't make it look like magic though? It used to be all the hype for a while and then everyone moved on from it.
barrkel12 hours ago
Using an LLM to (re)write your prompt or system prompt (for local models) is free alpha.
doctorpangloss9 hours ago
you would also be interested in dSPY...