So the exploiters have deprecated that version of spyware and moved on I see. This has been the case every other time. The state actors realize that there's too many fingers in the pie (every other nation has caught on), the exploit is leaked and patched. Meanwhile, all actors have moved on to something even better.
Remember when Apple touted the security platform all-up and a short-time later we learned that an adversary could SMS you and pwn your phone without so much as a link to be clicked.
Each time NSO had the next chain ready prior to patch.
I recall working at a lab a decade ago where we were touting full end-to-end exploit chain on the same day that the target product was announcing full end-to-end encryption -- that we could bypass with a click.
It's worth doing (Apple patching) but a reminder that you are never safe from a determined adversary.
My iOS devices have been repeatedly breached over the last few years, even with Lockdown mode and restrictive (no iCloud, Siri, Facetime, AirDrop ) MDM policy via Apple Configurator. Since moving to 2025 iPad Pro with MIE/eMTE and Apple (not Broadcom & Qualcomm) radio basebands, it has been relatively peaceful. Until the last couple of weeks, maybe due to leakage of this zero day and PoC as iOS 26.3 was being tested.
I would happily pay Apple an annual subscription fee to run iOS N-1 with backported security fixes from iOS N, along with the ability to restore local data backups to supervised devices (which currently requires at least 2 devices, one for golden image capture and one for restore, i.e. "enterprise" use case). I accept that Apple devices will be compromised (keep valuable data elsewhere), but I want fast detection and restore for availability.
GrapheneOS on Pixel and Pixel Tablet have been anomaly free, but Android tablet usability is << Apple iPad Pro.
USB with custom Debian Live ISO booted into RAM is useful for generic terminal or web browsing.
First idea if great honestly - lots of vendors do this. I use Firefox long term stable and Chrome offers this for enterprise customers. Windows even offers multiple options of this (LTSC being the best by far).
Would also make a great corporate / government product - I doubt they care about charging the average consumer for such a subscription (not enough revenue) but I can see risk averse businesses and especially government sectors being interested.
I don't think that proves they've been breached. Are you sure your not just seeing keep alive traffic or something random you haven't taken into account ?
Presence of one or more: unexpected outbound traffic observed via Ethernet, increased battery consumption, interactive response glitching, display anomalies ... and their absence after hard reset key sequence to evict non-persistent malware. Then log review.
What are examples of logs that you're considering IOCs? The picture you are painting is basically that most everyone is already compromised most of the time, which is ... hard to swallow.
By minimizing apps on device, blocking all traffic to Apple 17.x, using Charles Proxy (and NetGuard on Android) to allowlist IP/port for the remaining apps at the router level, and then manually inspecting all other network activity from the device. Also the disappearance of said traffic after hard-reset.
Sometimes there were anomalies in app logs (iOS Settings - Analytics) or sysdiagnose logs. Sadly iOS 26 started deleting logs that have been used in the past to look for IOCs.
Traffic was monitored on a physical ethernet cable via USB ethernet adapter to iOS device.
Charles Proxy was only used to time-associate manual application launch with attempts to reach destination hostnames and ports, to allowlist those on the separate physical router. If there was an open question about an app being a potential source of unexpected packets, the app was offloaded (data stayed on device, but app cannot be started).
MDM was not used to redirect DNS, only toggling features off in Apple Configurator.
So how did you identify this as a breach? I'm struggling to find this credible, and you've yet to provide specifics.
Right now it comes across as "just enough knowledge to be dangerous"-levels, meaning: you've seen things, don't understand those things, and draw an unfounded conclusion.
Feel free to provide specifics, like log entry lines, that show this breach.
Please feel free to ignore this sub-thread. I'm merely happy that Apple finally shipped an iPad that would last (for me! no claims about anyone else!) more than a few weeks without falling over.
To learn iOS forensics, try Corellium iPhone emulated VMs that are available to security researchers, the open-source QEMU emulation of iPhone 11 [1] where iOS behavior can be observed directly, paid training [2] on iOS forensics, or enter keywords from that course outline into web search/LLM for a crash course.
With the link I provided, a hacker can use iOS emulated in QEMU for:
• Restore / Boot
• Software rendering
• Kernel and userspace debugging
• Pairing with the host
• Serial / SSH access
• Multitouch
• Network
• Install and run any arbitrary IPA
Unlike a locked-down physical Apple device. It's a good starting point.
> restrictive (no iCloud, Siri, Facetime, AirDrop ) MDM policy via Apple Configurator
MDM? That doesn't surprise me. Do you want to know how _utterly_ trivial MDM is to bypass on Apple Silicon? This is the way I've done it multiple times (and I suspect there are others):
Monterey USB installer (or Configurator + IPSW)
Begin installation.
At the point of the reboot mid-installation, remove Internet access, or, more specifically, make sure the Mac cannot DNS resolve: iprofiles.apple.com, mdmenrollment.apple.com, deviceenrollment.apple.com.
Continue installation and complete.
Add 0.0.0.0 entries for these three hostnames to /etc/hosts (or just keep the above "null routed" at your DNS server/router.
Tada. That's it. I wish there was more to it.
You can now upgrade your Mac all the way to Tahoe 26.3 without complaint, problem, or it ever phoning home. Everything works. iCloud. Find My. It seems that the MDM enrollment check is only ever done at one point during install and then forgotten about.
Caveat: I didn't experiment too much, but it seems that some newer versions of macOS require some internet access to complete installation, for this reason or others, but I didn't even bother to validate, since I had a repeatable and tested solution.
16e still uses a Broadcom chip for WiFi + Bluetooth, though. iPhone Air is currently the only iPhone that uses both Apple-designed baseband + WiFi/BT chips.
Meh. It’s up to Apple to write secure software in the first place. Maybe if they spent more time on that instead of fucking over their UI in the name of something different, and less time virtue signalling, their shit would be more secure.
>It's worth doing (Apple patching) but a reminder that you are never safe from a determined adversary.
I hate these lines. Like yes NSA or Mossad could easily pwn you if they want. Canelo Alvarez could also easily beat your ass. Is he worth spending time to defend against also?
Memory Tagging Extension is an Arm architectural feature, not an Apple invention. Apple integrated and productised it, which is good engineering. But citing MTE as proof that Apple’s model is inherently superior misses the point. It doesn’t address the closed trust model or lack of independent system verification.
Your claim wasn't about inherent superiority or who invented what, your claim was "that Apple's approach is security by obscurity with a dollop of PR." The fact that they deployed MTE on a wide scale, along with many other security technologies, shows that not to be true.
decade-old vulns like this are why the 'you're not interesting enough to target' argument falls apart. commercial spyware democratized nation-state capabilities - now any mediocre threat actor with budget can buy into these exploits. the Pegasus stuff proved that pretty clearly. and yeah memory safety helps but the transition is slow - you've got this massive C/C++ codebase in iOS that's been accumulating bugs for 15+ years, and rewriting it all in Swift or safe-C is a multi-decade project. meanwhile every line of legacy code is a ticking time bomb. honestly think the bigger issue is detection - if you can't tell you've been pwned, memory safety doesn't matter much.
Meanwhile Apple made a choice to leave iOS 18 vulnerable on the devices that receive updates to iOS 26. If you want security, be ready to sacrifice UI usability.
If you set Liquid Glass to the more opaque mode in settings I find iOS usability to be fine now, and some non-flashy changes such as moving search bars to the bottom are good UX improvements.
The real stinker with Liquid Glass has been macOS. You get a half-baked version of the design that barely even looks good and hurts usability.
I wonder what the internal conversations are like around memory safety at Apple right now. Do people feel comfortable enough with Swift's performance to replace key things like dyld and the OS? Are there specific asks in place for that to happen? Is Rust on the table? Or does C and C++ continue to dominate in these spaces?
That does universal copy and paste with my linux laptop? Airdrop with my android tablet?
I can copy something on my macbook and paste that on my iphone - nice feature. Or to my iPad. I’m a sucker for interconnected technology, no hassle with transferring data between my devices.
Sure there are alternatives, but none that provide such integration amongst diverse class of devices. That’s the true monopole they have - unfortunately.
Ironically this is a security focused thread. The solution here isn’t to switch to a Linux phone, a platform that has absolutely atrocious security, especially compared to even stock iOS/Android. The only alternative that actually increases privacy and security is GrapheneOS. If one doesn’t want to buy a Pixel in order to have it, they can wait and see what the new OEM that will support GOS will be later this year before deciding if it’s worth waiting for in 2027.
I don't know what "equally annoying" would be for a company and its customers, i.e. a fair compromise. But we need a law requiring companies open source their hardware within X days of end of life support.
And somehow make sure these are meaningful updates. Not feature parity with new hardware, but security parity when it can be provided by a software only update.
Otherwise a company in effect takes back the property, without compensation.
Well whatever the zero means, it can't be the number of days that the bug has been present, generally. It should be expected that most zero-days concern a bug with a non-zero previous lifespan.
“Zero day” has meant different things over the years, but for the last couple-ish decades it’s meant “the number of days that the vendor has had to fix them” AKA “newly-known”.
It's pretty unbeliveable that a zero-day can sit here this long. If one can exist, the likeliehood of more existing at all times is non-trivial.
Whether it's a walled garden of iOS, or relative openneds of Android, I don't think either can police everythign on anyone's behalf.
I'm not sure how organizations can secure any device ios or android if they can't track and control the network layer, period out of it, and there are zero carveouts for the OS itself around network traffic visibility.
iOS is one problem, but it goes for every other
device/server/desktop/appliance that you use.
You can take a lot of precautions, and mitigate
some risk, and ensure that operations can continue
even if something bad happens¹,
but you cant ever "be safe".
¹
""
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns;
that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know
""
(Often attributed to Donald Rumsfeld, though he did not originate the concept.)
> how organizations can secure any device ios or android if they can't track and control the network layer, period out of it, and there are zero carveouts for the OS itself around network traffic visibility.
The closest I've seen is an on-device VPN like Lockdown Privacy , but it can't block Apple bypassing the VPN.
This kind of mental model only works if you think of things as made huge shadowy blobs, not people.
dyld has one principal author, who would 100% quit and go to the press if he was told (by who?) to insert a back door. The whole org is composed of the same basic people as would be working on Linux or something. Are you imagining a mass of people in suits who learned how to do systems programming at the institute for evil?
Additionally, do you work in tech? You don’t think bugs appear organically? You don’t think creative exploitation of bugs is a thing?
This vastly overstates both the competence of spy agencies and of software engineers in general. When it comes to memory unsafe code, the potential for exploits is nearly infinite.
It was a complicated product that many people worked in order to develop and took advantage of many pre-existing vulnerabilities as well knowledge of complex and niche systems in order to work.
Yeah, Stuxnet was the absolute worst of the worst the depths of its development we will likely truly never know. The cost of its development we will never truly know. It was an extremely highly, hyper targeted, advanced digital weapon. Nation states wouldn't even use this type of warfare against pedophiles.
Stuxnet was discovered because a bug was accidently introduced during an update [0]. So I think it speaks more to how vulnerabilities and bugs do appear organically. If an insanely sophisticated program built under incredibly high security and secrecy standards can accidently push an update introducing a bug, then why wouldn't it happen to Apple?
Maybe sometimes? With how many bugs are normally found in very complex code, would a rational spy agency spend the money to add a few more? Doing so is its own type of black op, with plenty of ways to go wrong.
OTOH, how rational are spy agencies about such things?
The exploit was always there, you just didn't know about it, but attackers might have. The only thing that changed is that you're now aware that there's a vulnerability.
To what? Write 100% bug free software? I don't think that's actually achievable, and expecting so is just setting yourself up for appointment. Apple does a better job than most other vendors except maybe GrapheneOS. Mainstream Android vendors are far worse. Here's Cellebrite Premium's support matrix from July 2024, for locked devices. iPhones are vulnerable after first unlock (AFU), but Androids are even worse. They can be hacked even if they have been shut down/rebooted.
The problem with that is it runs on a desktop, which means very little in the way of protection against physical attacks. You might be safe from Mossad trying to hack you from half way across the world, but you're not safe from someone doing an evil maid attack, or from seizing it and bruteforcing the FDE password (assuming you didn't set a 20 random character password).
This is a newly-discovered vulnerability (CVE-2026-20700, addressed along with CVE-2025-14174 and CVE-2025-43529).
Note that the description "an attacker with memory write capability may be able to execute arbitrary code" implies that this CVE is a step in a complex exploit chain. In other words, it's not a "grab a locked iPhone and bypass the passcode" vulnerability.
I may well be missing something, but this reads to me as code execution on user action, not lock bypass.
Like, you couldn’t get a locked phone that hadn’t already been compromised to do anything because it would be locked so you’d have no way to run the code that triggers the compromise.
Am I not interpreting things correctly?
[edit: ah, I guess “An attacker with memory write capability” might cover attackers with physical access to the device and external hardware attached to its circuit board that can write to the memory directly?]
Remember when Apple touted the security platform all-up and a short-time later we learned that an adversary could SMS you and pwn your phone without so much as a link to be clicked.
KSIMET: 2020, FORCEDENTRY: 2021, PWNYOURHOME, FINDMYPWN: 2022, BLASTPASS: 2023
Each time NSO had the next chain ready prior to patch.
I recall working at a lab a decade ago where we were touting full end-to-end exploit chain on the same day that the target product was announcing full end-to-end encryption -- that we could bypass with a click.
It's worth doing (Apple patching) but a reminder that you are never safe from a determined adversary.
Guaranteed. I find it hard to believe state actors will not attempt this.
Flash paper is king when it comes to secrets I guess.
I would happily pay Apple an annual subscription fee to run iOS N-1 with backported security fixes from iOS N, along with the ability to restore local data backups to supervised devices (which currently requires at least 2 devices, one for golden image capture and one for restore, i.e. "enterprise" use case). I accept that Apple devices will be compromised (keep valuable data elsewhere), but I want fast detection and restore for availability.
GrapheneOS on Pixel and Pixel Tablet have been anomaly free, but Android tablet usability is << Apple iPad Pro.
USB with custom Debian Live ISO booted into RAM is useful for generic terminal or web browsing.
Would also make a great corporate / government product - I doubt they care about charging the average consumer for such a subscription (not enough revenue) but I can see risk averse businesses and especially government sectors being interested.
Sometimes there were anomalies in app logs (iOS Settings - Analytics) or sysdiagnose logs. Sadly iOS 26 started deleting logs that have been used in the past to look for IOCs.
Are you using a simple config profile on iOS to redirect DNS and if so how are you generating it ? Full MDM or what are you adding to the profile ?
Charles Proxy was only used to time-associate manual application launch with attempts to reach destination hostnames and ports, to allowlist those on the separate physical router. If there was an open question about an app being a potential source of unexpected packets, the app was offloaded (data stayed on device, but app cannot be started).
MDM was not used to redirect DNS, only toggling features off in Apple Configurator.
Right now it comes across as "just enough knowledge to be dangerous"-levels, meaning: you've seen things, don't understand those things, and draw an unfounded conclusion.
Feel free to provide specifics, like log entry lines, that show this breach.
To learn iOS forensics, try Corellium iPhone emulated VMs that are available to security researchers, the open-source QEMU emulation of iPhone 11 [1] where iOS behavior can be observed directly, paid training [2] on iOS forensics, or enter keywords from that course outline into web search/LLM for a crash course.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44258670
[2] https://ringzer0.training/countermeasure25-apple-ios-forensi...
After a few years, bought the 2025 iPad Pro to see if MTE/eMTE would help, and it did.
MDM? That doesn't surprise me. Do you want to know how _utterly_ trivial MDM is to bypass on Apple Silicon? This is the way I've done it multiple times (and I suspect there are others):
Monterey USB installer (or Configurator + IPSW)
Begin installation.
At the point of the reboot mid-installation, remove Internet access, or, more specifically, make sure the Mac cannot DNS resolve: iprofiles.apple.com, mdmenrollment.apple.com, deviceenrollment.apple.com.
Continue installation and complete.
Add 0.0.0.0 entries for these three hostnames to /etc/hosts (or just keep the above "null routed" at your DNS server/router.
Tada. That's it. I wish there was more to it.
You can now upgrade your Mac all the way to Tahoe 26.3 without complaint, problem, or it ever phoning home. Everything works. iCloud. Find My. It seems that the MDM enrollment check is only ever done at one point during install and then forgotten about.
Caveat: I didn't experiment too much, but it seems that some newer versions of macOS require some internet access to complete installation, for this reason or others, but I didn't even bother to validate, since I had a repeatable and tested solution.
https://theapplewiki.com/wiki/C4000
I hate these lines. Like yes NSA or Mossad could easily pwn you if they want. Canelo Alvarez could also easily beat your ass. Is he worth spending time to defend against also?
Apple really need to open up so at very least 3rd parties can verify integrity of the system.
Apple could do more for device security forensics.
Meanwhile, user app activity goes into "biome" files for theft by malware, https://bluecrewforensics.com/2022/03/07/ios-app-intents/
The real stinker with Liquid Glass has been macOS. You get a half-baked version of the design that barely even looks good and hurts usability.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/126347
So left to update to 26.3, device slows, battery life deteriorates and a new device needs to be ~~purchased~~ … errr rented.
Good that apple has a monopole else consumers would have a choice.
I can copy something on my macbook and paste that on my iphone - nice feature. Or to my iPad. I’m a sucker for interconnected technology, no hassle with transferring data between my devices.
Sure there are alternatives, but none that provide such integration amongst diverse class of devices. That’s the true monopole they have - unfortunately.
To be fair this can be replicated with LocalSend, albeit not as slick UX wise.
I don't know what "equally annoying" would be for a company and its customers, i.e. a fair compromise. But we need a law requiring companies open source their hardware within X days of end of life support.
And somehow make sure these are meaningful updates. Not feature parity with new hardware, but security parity when it can be provided by a software only update.
Otherwise a company in effect takes back the property, without compensation.
> ... decade-old ...
> ... was exploited in the wild ...
> ... may have been part of an exploit chain....
There is evidence that some people were aware and exploiting it.
Apple was unaware until right now that it existed, thus is a 'zero day' meaning an exploit that the outside world knows about but they don't.
Whether it's a walled garden of iOS, or relative openneds of Android, I don't think either can police everythign on anyone's behalf.
I'm not sure how organizations can secure any device ios or android if they can't track and control the network layer, period out of it, and there are zero carveouts for the OS itself around network traffic visibility.
iOS is one problem, but it goes for every other device/server/desktop/appliance that you use.
You can take a lot of precautions, and mitigate some risk, and ensure that operations can continue even if something bad happens¹, but you cant ever "be safe".
¹ "" There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know "" (Often attributed to Donald Rumsfeld, though he did not originate the concept.)
Know what bad can happen is difficult.
The closest I've seen is an on-device VPN like Lockdown Privacy , but it can't block Apple bypassing the VPN.
https://lockdownprivacy.com/ | https://github.com/confirmedcode/Lockdown-iOS
They don't appear there organically.
dyld has one principal author, who would 100% quit and go to the press if he was told (by who?) to insert a back door. The whole org is composed of the same basic people as would be working on Linux or something. Are you imagining a mass of people in suits who learned how to do systems programming at the institute for evil?
Additionally, do you work in tech? You don’t think bugs appear organically? You don’t think creative exploitation of bugs is a thing?
Of course no one can admit it publicly.
But it is something that governments are known to proactively do.
You can get dirt on people a la Jeffrey Epstein. And use that to coerce them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)
Stuxnet was pretty impressive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
It was a complicated product that many people worked in order to develop and took advantage of many pre-existing vulnerabilities as well knowledge of complex and niche systems in order to work.
[0] https://repefs.wordpress.com/2025/04/09/a-comprehensive-anal...
OTOH, how rational are spy agencies about such things?
But some just happen to work too well.
But governments do have blatant back doors in chips & software.
>I've heard rumors ...
So like, the comment you're replying to? This is just going in circles.
Edit: I meant iOS 18
But there were security updates for macOS 14 and macOS 15 released yesterday:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/126350
https://support.apple.com/en-us/126349
Can’t wait to see how much battery it eats.
I'd much rather not do that
I trusted apple.
To what? Write 100% bug free software? I don't think that's actually achievable, and expecting so is just setting yourself up for appointment. Apple does a better job than most other vendors except maybe GrapheneOS. Mainstream Android vendors are far worse. Here's Cellebrite Premium's support matrix from July 2024, for locked devices. iPhones are vulnerable after first unlock (AFU), but Androids are even worse. They can be hacked even if they have been shut down/rebooted.
https://grapheneos.social/system/media_attachments/files/112...
https://grapheneos.social/system/media_attachments/files/112...
https://grapheneos.social/system/media_attachments/files/112...
> assuming you didn't set a 20 random character password
It doesn't have to be all random characters for good protection.
Note that the description "an attacker with memory write capability may be able to execute arbitrary code" implies that this CVE is a step in a complex exploit chain. In other words, it's not a "grab a locked iPhone and bypass the passcode" vulnerability.
Like, you couldn’t get a locked phone that hadn’t already been compromised to do anything because it would be locked so you’d have no way to run the code that triggers the compromise.
Am I not interpreting things correctly?
[edit: ah, I guess “An attacker with memory write capability” might cover attackers with physical access to the device and external hardware attached to its circuit board that can write to the memory directly?]