everdrive1 hour ago
At this point, nearly every online service should be considered hostile. If they can make a small amount of money by compromising your privacy or your identity, they will. If they can make a small amount of money by stealing your attention and addicting you, they will.

Are there exceptions? I'm sure. Will I be erring sometimes by being cautious? Definitely. But, there is really not much of an alternative these days.

stephenhuey1 hour ago
I have long wondered about the market size for privacy-focused apps. Sure, plenty of people don't know or don't care to value that, but if there are enough, maybe you could have a whole set of apps that emphasize they are not seeking world domination or selling out to the highest bidder, and a major selling point for using them would be that they are not < your expected chat/dating/photo/social site >.

Am I too idealistic? If such apps are not aggressively seeking hyper growth, it seems like these more trustworthy services could be deployed to cheap servers and let people use them for cheap without having to resort to selling user data.

JohnFen38 minutes ago
> I have long wondered about the market size for privacy-focused apps.

The real problem is how to trust that a "privacy-focused" app is actually privacy-focused. You certainly can't take the publisher's word for it.

The only safe stance is to withhold as much personal information from as much software and services as possible.

pesus27 minutes ago
Even if they were initially trustworthy, it's surely only a matter of time before they start wanting/needing to make (more) money and start abandoning their principles in pursuit of profit.
nemomarx55 minutes ago
Users who want to be private and are willing to pay extra for it are necessarily highly valuable for data brokers and advertisers. So incentives always push towards betraying them eventually I think.
jmye22 minutes ago
Is that true? Not arguing, just curious. I would imagine that the highly valuable users are those most likely to buy things, and people that into privacy would be fundamentally more likely to also go to extremes to block that advertising, but this is very much not my area.
kube-system55 minutes ago
This is a multi-axis problem.

On one spectrum, you have privacy -- at one extreme, the most private of people don't even use social apps, they are traditionally private people. At the other extreme, you have the highest consumers of apps -- the people who demand sharing the most.

On the other spectrum, you have technical acuity -- at one extreme you have people who can audit software they use and verify that it actually does what it says -- at the other extreme, you have people who have no clue and will believe whatever is convincing.

Given this, the market for "app that enables sharing, but has privacy controls, and is verifiably so" is a tiny circle somewhere in the middle of this grid.

JohnFen24 minutes ago
> at one extreme you have people who can audit software they use and verify that it actually does what it says

Unless the software sends data off to the cloud or a sever somewhere. You can't audit what happens there.

throwway12038557 minutes ago
The problem is that large-scale use of the Internet for social networks and for organizing meetings in real life is fundamentally incompatible with privacy. It works for small, tight-knit insular groups, but as soon as you expand the scope of the network to include acquaintances and friends of friends you'll eventually find a connection to someone who cares less about privacy than about making a buck.

If we had a sort of "federated" system we'd still have this problem because you might always find yourself federated with someone who just wants to sell the information.

It's a cultural problem within this hyper-aggressive version of Capitalism that we've adopted, that even data about people has value. Until we decide as a culture that this kind of data sale or data use is shameful and unacceptable we'll be in this situation no matter what technical solution we adopt.

gjsman-10006 minutes ago
> Am I too idealistic?

Open source developers are wildly idealistic. In the rest of the world, I have finally internalized...

1. Most people say they care about privacy... but won't spend even $1 for it. They care about their privacy about as much as an open source developer cares about user experience. Just extract the tarball, it's not that hard.

2. Linux is not even close to being popular on the desktop. Gaming and web browsing is a tiny subset of what people buy PCs to do, and Linux isn't even close on the rest. Even the gaming success is so niche it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things (Switch 2 outsold 3 years Steam Deck sales in the first 24 hours).

3. Some of this optimism was deluded from the start. Like when Stallman said we can defeat proprietary software with open source, then openly admitted he had no idea how any open source developers could afford rent. "If everyone works for free, while the big companies stop working, we could get ahead" is gobsmackingly naive and it's honestly astounding anyone fell for it.

nonameiguess39 minutes ago
Not privacy-focused, but OKCupid itself fit many of your requirements when it first came out. It wasn't aggressively seeking hyper growth and barely marketed outside of existing SparkNotes and SparkMatch users. It was just a few math nerds at Harvard that wanted to model human romantic compatibility by categorizing you into a shareable cutely named personality type, and they bolted on crowd-sourced questions to see if whatever they hadn't thought of themselves might be relevant.

Ten years later, the social media revolution is in full swing, the relatively small service they built that had catered mostly to nerds was suddenly lucrative, and they sell to Match Group and this happens.

To be entirely fair to these guys, I don't think they came into it intending to sell out as their long-term goal. But four guys who got into data analytics in college also didn't find themselves as their mid-30s approached particularly wanting to run a dating service for the rest of their lives, either.

Whatever happened to FetLife? If any dating service had to be privacy-focused, that was it.

prepend23 minutes ago
I’ve never posted information anywhere off a machine that I control unless I’m comfortable with it being sold or made public.

Reduces anxiety.

cromka12 minutes ago
That's great if you live like it's still the 90s.
uoaei25 minutes ago
The persistence of data means that if you expect a firm to eventually become hostile, you should treat them as hostile today.
Igor_Wiwi59 minutes ago
Reminds me of another story when 23andme sold dna data https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5451398/23andme-sale-ap...
baldrunner20491 hour ago
Counting the number of comments in this thread 50 minutes later (2 including mine), I can just extrapolate most of HNers have an OKCupid account
amiantos25 minutes ago
Considering how long OKCupid has been around, there's a good chance a significant majority of internet-using millennials have had an account at some point in their lives.
tenderfault1 hour ago
no comment
ge9642 minutes ago
At least back then it was just 2D Tinder for verified you have to do the side to side maybe photogrammetry

I don't participate in this stuff anymore the dating app algos have put me in the ugly stack, sad but true

Also nowadays hard to tell if people are real

amelius11 minutes ago
In these cases can we use 3.0M to disambiguate from the company name?
aitchnyu34 minutes ago
Google GCP updates me with a list of third party subprocessors which potentially interact with my data. All end users of any service should be informed of direct and transitive subprocessors.
ex1fm3ta41 minutes ago
The vast majority of users have not idea what exif metadata are. It's probably time to look it up. You know that automatic geographic location data that shows up in your favourite photo app ... There you go.
Lio29 minutes ago
> The alleged conduct at issue does not reflect how OkCupid operates today.

I mean, come on. This bullshit is what you said before.

You haven’t changed, you’re just pissed off you caught but a bit smug you got away with it scott free.

josefritzishere36 minutes ago
Does this still leave them open to liabi9lity in a class action lawsuit? The criminality is staggering.
cmxch38 minutes ago
Between this and “date safety” invasions of privacy, maybe have a discussion on data ownership and privacy?
ChrisArchitect41 minutes ago